Go Ahead And Park In Those Fuel-Efficient Vehicle Spaces

"PelicanHazard" (pelicanhazard) 09/19/2013 at 15:25 • Filed to: fuel efficient, leed, parking

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(Disclaimer: Obviously local laws, temperaments, and your own thoughts and tolerances for your fellow citizens vary, so take this as a very general view of what's wrong. Always act according to appropriate local conditions.)

I'm sure most of you in the US have come across a new-build storefront or development that had some spots labelled "Fuel Efficient Vehicles Only", typically third in line for preferred spots after handicapped and New & Expectant Mothers spaces. Maybe you wondered what was up and, unless you drive an electric or hybrid car, maybe you didn't park in one. Well don't worry, because your car probably qualifies as fuel efficient.

You see, unless the property owner just fitted them because they personally want to project a clean green image or would prefer if the building users switched to hybrids, chances are that sign was put up as part of a building's !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , which acknowledges that the carbon footprint of a building you have to drive to is influenced by the car you drive. Therefore, in the design of the building, bays are marked as "Fuel Efficient Vehicles Only" and the 'guaranteed' cleanness of the cars that park there is taken into account.

On the face of it, it seems like a good idea. It is a small pressure on frequenters to the space to choose a more efficient vehicle when it comes time to replace their auto, it helps lower some carbon footprints, everyone's happy and the wildlife breathes easier, right?

Two problems:

1] It's not legally enforcable. In fact, only the handicapped spaces are legally enforcable, as they have the Americans with Disabilities Act behind them. The Expectant Mothers and Fuel Efficient Vehicles spaces? There is no blanket law that protects them from being used by anyone ( Disclaimer again, check your local laws! ). Sure, the building owner and other clientele might give you the stinkeye, but they can't call the cops on you like in a handicapped space.

2] Nearly everything qualifies as 'fuel efficient'.

I'm not kidding. My Dart qualifies, a Mitsu Lancer qualifies, a Jeep Patriot qualifies. If it's a newer model year than 2004, it probably qualifies. There's an Excel spreadsheet available !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , just under the "Downloads" header, that lists all MY1998-2013 vehicles that qualify as 'fuel efficient' under LEED. It's full of the expected 'Prius' and 'Hybrid' as well as many surprises like 'Equinox', 'HHR', and 'TT'.

So go ahead, if you're in a pinch in a packed parking lot, or the weather's bad and you forgot an umbrella, or if you're the kind of person who just wants to see others' reactions to this 'faux pas', park in the fuel efficient space and see what happens.

Although the unlabeled spot next to it does save you the trouble of this diatribe if someone objects.

PanchoVilleneuve ST > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:29

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I saw a Cayenne Turbo S parked in one of those once. I think the biggest issue is people just don't give a fuck.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:32

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The hell of it is, I suspect plenty of older fuel efficient vehicles don't qualify. Honda CR-X? I'm betting not. A five-speed K-car with the I4 and over 30mpg highway? Heh, no. The Nash Metropolitan with its 40+? Fehgeddaboutit

Z_Stig > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:33

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I've parked in the hybrid parking space at my local drugstore. My reasons: I've actually never seen a hybrid make use of their 'specially' marked spaces, and I feel when it comes to reducing global emissions and being 'kind' to the earth, my 350Z is not much worse than a Prius.

Brian, The Life of > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:33

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Handicapped spaces are the ONLY ones I respect, all others are bullshit. The ones I am especially mirthful when disregarding are these:

delete-me-please123 > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:35

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Great article man, thanks. I have this discussion often with my friends. I park in those spots every chance I get and I revel in it. I have to explain to them about the breaks and certifications the building owner receive. They don't understand property development and that's fine. I also have to tell them that its just not legally enforceable. Not all of them have accepted that yet.

What I really like to do (after they think its still a good idea), is to tell them that they've created "class parking". What if I cant afford a hybrid? I have to park in the back now? Back of the bus for you poor person. What if its the last spot? I love making them feel bad, they are my friends after all.

Thanks again.

PelicanHazard > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 09/19/2013 at 15:38

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Some of those might have to do with advances in smog controls, too.

PelicanHazard > PanchoVilleneuve ST 09/19/2013 at 15:38

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Especially not someone in a Cayenne Turbo S.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:40

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Lol, my 365 horsepower sedan says ECO boost on it.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:41

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I wonder if i could get away with it in my Fiat? 38-41 mpg

duurtlang > Z_Stig 09/19/2013 at 15:42

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We don't have 'hybrid' parking space here, but if we did I'd park there. I drive a car with French underpinnings designed in Italy and it's assembled partially in Italy and in France. As such it's a French/Italian hybrid.

deekster_caddy > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:42

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If there is an EV charging station and appropriate signage for it, in some states it IS a ticket-able offense. I've never heard of the "fuel efficient" sign before though.

(edited)

CalzoneGolem > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:42

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Is that, like, a tiny sign or is that post huge?

PelicanHazard > deekster_caddy 09/19/2013 at 15:43

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Yes, that's why this is only meant as broad knowledge.

PelicanHazard > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. 09/19/2013 at 15:43

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All 500s qualify under LEED, even the Abarth. List hasn't been updated for 2014, but I imagine the 500L will also qualify.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:44

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Well, yes, but then you're just playing games for anything but CO2. There's only weak across-the-board parity for low emissions of actual toxic specie per gallon - admittedly an "official list" helps somewhat in that regard, but taking a mid-miles CR-X with a good cat versus a high miles more modern Lancer, I'd be willing to bet the level of chemical stank with the Mitsu is higher. The K-car isn't outright awful either - though the carbed Nash would probably score in the lawn equipment range: 5-6 times or more unburned hydrocarbons and general filth *overall* than a typical 90s ride.

HammerheadFistpunch > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:44

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Tey have these outside ikea and specifically say "hybrid, electric or diesel". I see a lot of huge full ton diesels in there a lot, but it does make my wife feel good parking her tdi next to hybrids, even though she occasionally gets the stink eye

Benzed92 > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 15:59

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I've parked my Mazdaspeed 6 in those spots at work a few times, but only when the S2k is already parked in the other one so I don't feel bad. Most of the time I just park two spots down anyways.

J. Walter Weatherman > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 16:01

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Careful about the "not legally enforceable" language there. You are correct that there is no law specifically addressing fuel efficient parking spaces (that I am familiar with, at least), but that doesn't mean that those signs are entirely without basis under the law. Private land owners are generally free to make up whatever parking rules they want to for their own property, and, so long as those rules are understandable and conspicuously posted, they are generally allowed to tow any car parked in violation of those rules at the owner of the car's expense.

An obvious flaw with a "fuel efficient vehicles only" rule is the vagueness of what constitutes "fuel efficient", so you could argue that the rule is too vague to be enforceable, but there are limits to that argument. If you are arguing to a judge that your Hummer was wrongfully towed because you didn't know it doesn't qualify as "fuel efficient", you are probably going to have a bad time.

Meatcoma > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 16:02

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Dafuq?

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

thebigbossyboss > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 16:11

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I usually just park in the cart corral, because then you get padding on 3 sides in case the people beside you don`t know to park.

Meatcoma > thebigbossyboss 09/19/2013 at 16:21

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I've seen you around.

CalzoneGolem > thebigbossyboss 09/19/2013 at 16:22

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Are your doors welded shut so you get out Dukes of Hazard style, or do you make egress through the trunk/hatch?

Brian, The Life of > J. Walter Weatherman 09/19/2013 at 16:22

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Yes, but they must also post something that says they will tow you. I don't believe they can tow you for parking in a space that says, "Reserved for Dweezle Zappa fans" or somesuch. At least that's the rules in CA.

HammerheadFistpunch > J. Walter Weatherman 09/19/2013 at 16:24

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Thing is though, the hummer is exactly as fuel efficient as a prius in terms of converting gasoline to heat, or you could argue that passenger miles its efficient, or you could simply say that compared to other vehicles like a bus, its very fuel efficient. If the sign doesnt specify the terms of "fuel efficient" or provide a location to find a reference, or provide a qualifier...well then, your probably still screwed if you get towed.

thebigbossyboss > CalzoneGolem 09/19/2013 at 16:24

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I`m just skinny.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > thebigbossyboss 09/19/2013 at 16:25

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True story: I had a Costco cart guy get fundamentally irate with me one time for parking next to the cart corral. When they'd put it in, they had put it up not evenly between two sets of spaces but only just into/over the line into the parking space on one side - and also not bothered to repaint. Thus, there was still a space there... technically.

What made him mad was that he didn't have a car-wide aisle to pull carts from the other side through.

SpeedSix > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 09/19/2013 at 16:27

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Guess I have to abandon plans for getting a Honda CRX HF.

PelicanHazard > J. Walter Weatherman 09/19/2013 at 16:34

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That's why I was careful to start the article with a disclaimer. Good points all around.

J. Walter Weatherman > Brian, The Life of 09/19/2013 at 16:35

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The laws regarding the right to tow a vehicle from private property are usually a morass of state statute and city code. A good general rule is, if there is a sign that says you can't park somewhere, you should probably assume the land owner has at least an intention to tow those that don't comply, whether legal or not. If you are in court arguing to a judge that technically there was no right to tow your car, you have pretty much already lost, regardless of how the judge rules, because you have had to take an entire day off of work to bicker about it in front of a judge, and the most you are likely to recover is the cost of the tow. Better off just obeying the signs, IMHO, no matter how stupid you think they are.

PelicanHazard > Meatcoma 09/19/2013 at 16:35

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It's real , though none remain on the road.

J. Walter Weatherman > HammerheadFistpunch 09/19/2013 at 16:41

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Yeah, even if the judge ultimately rules in your favor, just the simple fact that you had to go to court and argue in front of a judge means you have already lost.

Also, judges typically don't take too well to technical arguments like "but they didn't say what type of fuel efficiency" like you outline. They generally expect everyone to act reasonably and in good faith. Trying to get on contrived technicalities generally makes them considerably less inclined to go easy on you.

getchapopcorn > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 16:48

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Just as a heads up, police "can't enforce" them, no, but depending on your state's laws its more than likely that the store owner could have you towed with little more than a "towing enforced" sign at the ingress of the lot or elsewhere to put you on notice.

Stef Schrader > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 17:04

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The Lulzcer qualifies? Could've fooled my gas bill.

(Heavy foot probably doesn't help.)

SALAD4WD > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 17:08

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What would your opinion be on parking in those "Carpool Only" parking spaces I see periodically? Unless it requires a specific permit, I don't see why normal people couldn't or shouldn't park there.

or similarly,

Group B-raaaaaaaaaap! > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 17:59

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The LEED signs are only slightly less douch-y than this:

ASheep > HammerheadFistpunch 09/19/2013 at 18:40

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Thing is though, the hummer is exactly as fuel efficient as a prius in terms of converting gasoline to heat.

Hate to be that guy, but unless your Hummer is a Diesel, the Prius has a higher thermal efficiency. Prius engines run on the Atkinson cycle, which gives increased thermal efficiency at the expense of torque when compared to the Otto cycle used in most petrol engines.

There is this wonderful thing called Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC) which allows you to compare the fuel used by an engine at certain RPM, compared to the energy output at the flywheel. If you then level that by the average number of passengers carried, a Bus is very fuel efficient.

HammerheadFistpunch > ASheep 09/19/2013 at 18:49

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1. your thinking about volumetric efficiency , not thermal. The atkins cycle basically means a larger expansions stroke than compression, but its not related to thermal efficiency. Also, what you are talking about in part 2 is also called passenger mpg...which is mentioned above. If you aren't moving and simply buring fuel, both a prius and a cruise ship are converting gas to heat in the same proportion. 100% - byproducts.

ASheep > HammerheadFistpunch 09/19/2013 at 19:04

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Maybe I need to go have my morning coffee BEFORE posting on the interwebz... I may have read "converting gasoline to heat" but my brain said "converting gasoline to usable power". My apologies.

PelicanHazard > SALAD4WD 09/19/2013 at 19:24

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This is the first I've heard of carpool parking. I mean, how can they tell it was used as a carpool? The car is empty when parked.

If it requires a sticker to prove it's a registered carpool, then they probably also have the authority to tow it. Check local laws and policies, I certainly don't know what to do.

PelicanHazard > Group B-raaaaaaaaaap! 09/19/2013 at 19:25

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The difference is I've never seen one of those used as anything other than a joke, like a Corvette owner hanging one up inside their garage or something.

Group B-raaaaaaaaaap! > PelicanHazard 09/19/2013 at 19:48

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You've got a tremendous point there.

I'd like to change my stance on the issue:

The LEED signs are inherently douchier than these signs. Also, there will be no less than twice weekly verbal altercations around these signs by militantly indignant Prius owners.

Obligatory:

thebigbossyboss > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 09/19/2013 at 23:50

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Lol. The one and only time I did ever ark in a cart corral, the cart guy was out looking at my car, and then when I got in it he ran back to the store. Hilarious.

STIKleinWagon > PelicanHazard 09/20/2013 at 13:41

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So a Porsche Boxster is scored, but not the WRX?

WTF

The World of Vee > PelicanHazard 09/20/2013 at 14:09

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the biggest problem with signs like this isn't that the cops can ticket you, it's that idiots will see your car and declare a holy war on your vehicle in the name of what's right . I always say it's unacceptable and unbecoming to vandalize someone's property, signs like this just make people think they are actually right in doing so. Just like Mrs. Crazy, obese Prius driver.

I hoon, therefore I am > PelicanHazard 09/20/2013 at 16:30

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I'll be sure to park my Nova in one of these next time I take her out.

iceman34572 > PelicanHazard 02/23/2015 at 13:32

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In my eyes fuel efficient is all relative; my car is more fuel efficient than a dump truck, so I'm going to park there. At best those signs are elitist green nazi propaganda, and I refuse to acknowledge them. Plus they aren't in spanish for those citizens who don't have English as their first language (heck everything else in this country is) so fuck em.

MoonlitPossum > PelicanHazard 06/24/2017 at 10:35

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You could also just not be a prick. Side note: If you violate the parking policy, you won’t be arrested or ticketed by a cop, but the property owner CAN place a trespass on you and force you to leave, which they are likely to do if someone complains about you and you either refuse to comply or repeat the offense. A lot of those spots also have charging stations or wall/ground plugs for plug-in hybrids and EVs, who, unlike you, don’t have a gas station on every corner they can refuel at. EV charging is sparse, and hogging a spot with a gas car just because nobody is enforcing the rules is a dick move tantamount to me parking my EV in front of a gas pump in a full lot so you can’t get gas.